Family size condos in the downtown core - right across the street from city hall.

highschoolsBy Pepper Parr

March 29, 2017

BURLINGTON, ON

Public gallery Feb 9

Parents who believe fervently that there are going to be family size condominiums in th downtown core attended every meeting of the Program Accommodation Review.

The Central high school parents have been trying to tell the Halton District School Board that they have the population projections all wrong – there are going to be more families in the downtown core and they are going to be able to live in two and three bedroom condos.

Not going to happen counter the Boards planning people. Look at the Paradigm – five towers with mostly one bedroom units.

From civic sq

Carriage Gate group wants to build – a 27 story tower with 183 units – most of which will be two and three bedroom units.

Last night at a public meeting where people got to see what Nick Carnacelli and his Carriage Gate group wants to build – a 27 story tower with 183 units – most of which will be two and three bedroom units.

School board staff have said that they keep in touch with the developments that are planned – they didn’t make any mention at any time about what Carriage Gate has planned

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10 comments to Family size condos in the downtown core – right across the street from city hall.

  • Penny

    Times have changed. Look around the core. How many smaller older homes have been torn down and large monster homes built in their place. If you want families to live in condo buildings downtown then you need to make certain that the square footage meets their requirements.

    What people were prepared to make do years ago is not the case today.

    • James

      Yes times have indeed changed and respectfully, your way of thinking was consistent with how things looked 20 years ago. It’s now 2017, and momentum is once again starting to swing in a different direction. Yes there are monster homes being built for the 0.01%, and that’s unlikely to ever change, but what about the remaining 99.9%? Sure developers can make 2,500sq.ft condos if that’s what the market demands, but at the resulting price tag that unit would probably be out of reach for most of those 99.9%. They aren’t going to build units that people can’t afford to buy. Affordability will indeed change people’s perspectives. Times are changing. Lifestyles are changing. We’re quickly entering a new period of need vs. want in the GTA. Affordability vs. square footage. If people want space, they either need to figure out how to become wealthy, or move outside of the GTA. I don’t like it either, but that’s the way it is.

  • steve

    LOL yes, there’s no room for 1500 square foot homes since Canadians are covering .001 percent of the land mass and will soon run out of space.

  • Tom Muir

    James has a point. I grew up in an east Hamilton family neighborhood where all the houses were less than 1000 square. Ours was about 700, 2 bedrooms, each bigger than closets, 1 bath.

    We just made do, like all the other families. Much of the ordinary working world lives in small units and in mid rise – 4 to 6 stories.

    Does anyone here remember the so-called “wartime houses” that were all families and just as small.

    1500 feet would have been pure luxury, may be even 1000.

    People unhappy with such sizes are just unrealistic and must have lived privileged lives.

    The days of easy living in big houses are fast being inflated out of reach.

    Families priced out of this housing form will have to experience what the not so long ago people just had to accept and it was normal.

    We seem to be going back to that time.

    We may not like it, but that’s what we are seeing.

    The problem is greedy demand by developers for height and more height, scales that don’t fit, are poorly designed, and overpriced.

    Greg’s concerns are true and I agree that is what direction the city is going.

    It’s not a vibrant city that moves, with amenities and commercial zone with lots of potential and variety, but hostages in high density, $500 a square foot tenements, all looking like unimaginative, ugly flat towers.

    Has anyone noted any plans for building well planned commercial zones that aren’t dominated by big numbers of condos?

    Not me.

  • James

    How much square footage do we need, really? We’ve become spoiled in North America with 2000+ square foot homes to store all our “stuff”, large yards, and while these are all “nice to haves” the reality is that with the global population exploding the way it is, and with the realities of intensification not yet being understood in the GTA, the lifestyle that we’ve known here for the past 100 years will soon be a thing of the past. In another 100 years people will look back to today and comment how wasteful and greedy we were. Today, square footage = $$$. I’m sorry folks, the cost of living in the GTA is not going to drop. EVER. It’s simple supply and demand. The next generations out of necessity will begin adopting a more urban European lifestyle, where smaller living spaces are the norm. Time to start accepting that change is coming. People need to stop getting hung up on the number of storeys and start focusing on the design, amenities, affordability and boost to the local economy that these types of developments will provide. Whether we’re for or against it really doesn’t matter. I’m against snow, yet every winter it still happens. I bought a heavy coat, a snow blower and winter tires. I’ve adapted. People will adapt to intensification, eventually. But go ahead, keep complaining that you want larger units… just don’t act surprised when you find out you can’t afford them.

  • Stephen White

    Is it me or do all of these high rise developments look the same?? There is nothing unique or truly distinctive in their design. If they all look like that ugly monstrosity going up next to Walmart on Fairview then heaven help us all. I’m still trying to figure out who wants to live next to a GO train chugging along next door 18 hours a day.

    I fully agree with Greg’s point. The rents in these buildings will likely be so high as to dissuade small business people from building a viable business. Moreover, where is the parking? Where is the pedestrian traffic going to come from?

    It is glaringly evident that there is a serious lack of realism and common sense in all these proposals. Traffic patterns, parking, pedestrian traffic, logistical considerations, are all brushed aside in this mad pursuit for intensification. Residents understand the need for redevelopment but not at the expense of destroying neighbourhoods and imposing something that does not blend with the surrounding environment.

  • Penny

    Gary,

    You attended last night’s public meeting – Did the developer disclose the square footage for the 2 and 3 bedroom units?

    If anyone has this information I would really like to know.

  • Larger more flexible “family size” units of around 1,500 sq would be welcome. However if you create a commercial zone that can not accommodate traffic plus pedestrians – you will end up with nothing.

    At the moment city staff have no intention of creating a “vibrant city” it’s all just smoke for creating high density tenements. You need a commercial core – that requires lots of visitor parking and lots of large commercial units. The parking and proper commercial units are always the missing element.

    The city is not trying to create future users for mass transit and the like – they are trying to create hostages.

  • Gary Scobie

    I attended last night’s public meeting on this development application. Good point – the bulk of the units are 2 and 3 bedroom units that seem adequately sized to hold families that I believe we all agree are vital to have in the downtown core.

    Intensification is coming. The degree (height, unit type and unit density) is for residents to contemplate and comment directly to City Planner Kyle Plas at kyle.plas@burlington.ca by early April. File Number is 505-01/17. I hope as many residents as possible will do so.

    The planner for Carriage Gate talked about the future Brant Street corridor being one of a mid-rise streetscape, but I’m not sure of the definition of mid-rise anymore when this building is requested at 27 storeys. We all have to consider what we envision Brant Street and its neighbouring streets to look like in the next 15 years as developers bring forward plans for buildings not in the teens of storeys in height but in the high twenties. Is this to be the new normal for downtown Burlington? Have your say and I’ll have mine.

  • Penny

    Was the question asked at the meeting what the square footage of these 2 and 3 bedroom condos will be. I have seen developers tout 2 and 3 bedroom units with the total square footage of under 1000 square feet. The bedrooms are the size of closets, definitely not suited for families. Simply a marketing tool.

    Have to ask the right questions to get the right answers.